Yeah, somehow I got from video to sound recording in my haste. I don't care to beat this horse for too long either but I'd guess if our students were looking for a general info video, like someone playing an instrument, their first stop would be Youtube, not a library catalog nor even Google. The right tool for the right job. The UW catalog does however provide both a specific player's name and a more specific topical term if need be though Wikipedia does a much better job at that and includes at least one link to podcasts of actual playing. Left and right hand, I don't know. The poor limiting and/or labeling of that catalog should be resolved though so that it can provide better organized access to local resources.
M. Mitchell
-----Original Message-----
From: Next generation catalogs for libraries [mailto:NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stephen Paling
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 10:40 AM
To: NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] The "A" in RDA
Michael,
I appreciate the fact that you tried, but not so fast. As Karen pointed out, you can search under Books... for a video. OK. I searched for "dulcimer" under books to find a video. Indeed, the third hit is a sound recording. But I want a video, and for a very specific reason. I want to ~SEE~ the right-hand and left-hand technique involved in playing the dulcimer. So the catalog provided a sound recording... when I searched under books... for a video. OK. So instead of the thumbnail of the video that I got through Google, I get a link in a small font, separate from the main display of the information about the sound recording that I got by searching under books for a video. Who's on first?!?! I click on the link for the sound recording found under books when searching for a video... and I get a login page. You're claiming that it's a video, but it's labeled a sound recording. Since I can't see it without logging in, I have no way of knowing. I can find what I need through Googl!
e faster than I can log in.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, let's look at the scoreboard. I Googled "mountain dulcimer", and got what I wanted in seconds. In the catalog, I had to search under Books for a video, and got either a sound recording that isn't what I want, or a video labeled as a sound recording, that resides behind a proxy resolver that requires a login... to get an item that may or may not meet my need...
With all due respect, the straw man is on the other side.
Steve
On 08/01/13, "Mitchell, Michael" wrote:
> I went to the Wisc site, did an "Anywhere" search for dulcimer in the catalog and came up with Dulcimer man as the 3d hit. It's an online video of the Appalachian dulcimer being played. It is also a straw man killer. Clicking on the subject Appalachian dulcimer music that is in the record I'm taken to seven more hits, one of which is another recording (and straw man killer). Clicking on the "author" or performer on these two recordings, Kevin Roth, dulcimer player, I get about 16 hits which mostly seem to be recordings of his dulcimer playing (and straw man killers).
>
>
> Michael Mitchell
> Technical Services Librarian
> Brazosport College
> Lake Jackson, TX
> Michael.mitchell at brazosport.edu
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Next generation catalogs for libraries [mailto:NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU](javascript:main.compose() On Behalf Of Stephen Paling
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:18 PM
> To: NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] The "A" in RDA
>
> Hi Faye,
>
> If I said that other elements are always more important, I misspoke. In fact, my prototype actually uses uniform titles to bring together different versions of the same basic fable.
>
> Your response raises some good questions, though. I would never argue that we shouldn't provide author, title, and subject as options for users. However, let me give you an example of a search where none of those three worked for me. I bet this is a pretty common kind of search.
>
> I wanted to find a video of someone playing the mountain dulcimer. I Googled "mountain dulcimer" (no quotes), and found a YouTube video as the first hit. Even with network transit time, I was listening to the dulcimer (and watching) within a few seconds. I clearly wasn't looking for author or title. But was I looking for subject? I would argue that I wasn't. I didn't want articles about the mountain dulcimer. I already knew, basically, what it was. I didn't want information on playing the dulcimer. I'm already the world's worst banjo player, why torture people further?! The video isn't ~about~ the mountain dulcimer, per se. Topic? Genre? Instrument? Medium? I didn't have to think about.
>
> For fun, I looked at UW's catalog (http://library.wisc.edu/). Not only did the author-title-subject scheme not help me, it made it more difficult. I didn't want an article, book, journal, or database. I used the advanced search, limited to videos, slides, and files. I got a single hit. For a VHS tape. I'm not even sure I can play a videotape any more.
>
> So back to the main page. Explore Music! I roll over the link, and it says "The Beatles". Surely, a hint on how to search. Right? Nope. I click on the link, and get 79 hits (no pun intended) related to a defunct rock band that broke up before many of the ~parents~ of current undergrads were in kindergarten. I give up. The default options seem to be author-title-subject-anything, and those options are routed through divisions in the collection that don't help me. It really doesn't matter where on the site I go. It's just too damn difficult.
>
> Part of the problem was the collection. But the catalog made me think in ways that were unnecessary, even counterproductive. Now, if I wanted a particular recording or video? Work by a specific musician? Maybe the catalog would help. It absolutely should be able to. But, particularly with works that are primarily aesthetic in nature, author-title-subject just aren't enough in many cases.
>
> Sorry for the long response,
> Steve
>
> On 07/31/13, "Leibowitz, Faye R" wrote:
> > Hi, Steve--
> >
> > I agree that exploitable document structures and internal metadata are important tools for finding relevant resources. But I'm not so sure that I agree with you that they are always more important than author, title, and subject.
> >
> > For example, a library user seeking a known title wants to be able to easily find the item using title. In many next gen catalogs using relevancy ranking, the title doesn't even appear on the first page of search results. That can be quite frustrating.
> >
> > We should provide all of the options that technology allows for access to resources, keeping in mind the diversity of users (children as well as adults; non-English speakers as well as English speakers; etc.) Options should include mechanisms for identifying very granular data (as in your example) as well as data at a more "macro" level (as in subject searches)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Faye Leibowitz
> > General Languages Catalog Librarian
> > University Library System
> > University of Pittsburgh
> > frleibo_at_pitt.edu
Received on Thu Aug 01 2013 - 12:12:05 EDT