Re: NGC4LIB Digest - 8 Jul 2009 to 9 Jul 2009 (#2009-128)

Joe,

Just found your message here. 

" I'm thinking about the number of complaints we librarians have about
our
own tools. Is it unreasonable to imagine a big corporation, setting the
organization of the world's information as its goal, managing to produce
something that works as well as most of the catalogs out there?"

I'm sure Google could pick up with recently published books, using their
own "metadatists" and G-MARC, or whatever.  But in regards to metadata
pertaining to works from the past, I think there is no way they could -
or would want to try - to replicate the collective work of librarians
past.

Regards,  

Nathan Rinne

Media Cataloging Technician

Educational Service Center

11200 93rd Avenue North

Maple Grove MN. 55369

Email: rinnen_at_district279.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Next generation catalogs for libraries
[mailto:NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Montibello, Joseph P.
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:11 AM
To: NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] NGC4LIB Digest - 8 Jul 2009 to 9 Jul 2009
(#2009-128)

Nathan Rinne wrote: "I firmly believe that Google could never make
something approximating a dependable, quality catalog without the
records that libraries have worked so hard to make."

Why not, if Google "can hire the best of the best (libs and otherwise)"?
What was done once can't be done again, at least in terms of "something
approximating a dependable, quality catalog"?

I'm thinking about the number of complaints we librarians have about our
own tools. Is it unreasonable to imagine a big corporation, setting the
organization of the world's information as its goal, managing to produce
something that works as well as most of the catalogs out there?

I agree 100% that we shouldn't just cede control of the information to
Google.  But does it really hurt us to have competition? 

If Google invents GMARC tomorrow, and starts to build catalogs, and
those catalogs are halfway decent...who loses?  

Joe Montibello
Class of 1945 Library
Phillips Exeter Academy



Date:    Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:36:05 -0500
From:    "Rinne, Nathan (ESC)" <RinneN_at_DISTRICT279.ORG>
Subject: Re: OCLC Formally Withdraws WorldCat Policy

James Weinheimer:

"But again, if I am correct in my understanding, the master record held
in OCLC, along with the OCLC control number will become very valuable,
indeed." 

Karen Coyle: 
"...I think it already is very valuable, although under-utilized due to
restrictions (e.g. membership). This adds to my bewilderment about
OCLC's apparent fear of competition. OCLC has an extremely valuable
product, is used by over 60,000 libraries, and has 30 years of history
with the library community. Why are they acting so defensively?"

Me: 
Google?

(see:
http://www.niso.org/publications/white_papers/StreamlineBookMetadataWork
flowWhitePaper.pdf )

Allen Mullen on AUTOCAT recently culled the following from the report
(p. 6): 
"For current books, Google Book Search is ingesting both ONIX and MARC
records to collect the best possible metadata. Their preference is for
good quality MARC over poorly formed ONIX and well formed ONIX over poor
quality MARC. While ONIX has missing data elements, MARC data may exist
but isn't machine-friendly in terms of understanding the data.  There
are a number of librarians working at Google on metadata issues and
Google is also working with OCLC. Google supports standards and follows
new ones as they develop and are adopted over time.  Google is also
working to develop algorithms that may solve the problem of
distinguishing related works."

Should we assume that just because OCLC is working with Google they are
not a little bit wary of them? : )  What if Google, whose goal it is to
"organize the world's information" (even as they get into the OS
business and everything else, THIS is their stated goal), and can hire
the best of the best (libs and otherwise), wanted to "compete" in making
the ultimate catalog with the MARC records OCLC has in its possession?
I doubt it would be like the friendly competition that two brothers
might have playing basketball! (with no real good reasons for lack of
trust, fear, or great consequences if one loses) : ) 

I firmly believe that Google could never make something approximating a
dependable, quality catalog without the records that libraries have
worked so hard to make.  Should libraries (and by extension OCLC) look
forward to the day where they can just give everything away to Google...
giving into the added powers that Google's alluring algorithms can
provide? (after all, if they cease to be concerned about protecting
their records, may that not, in effect, be what they are doing?)

A real, not a rhetorical, question.   

Regards,
Nathan Rinne
Media Cataloging Technician
Educational Service Center
11200 93rd Avenue North
Maple Grove MN. 55369
Email: rinnen_at_district279.org