Two points:
Although I have a lot of experience and libraries, and as a result, I realize that my brain has been warped toward LCSH (although I have worked in other bibliographical agencies in the world), I still realize that when people ask a reference librarian a question, they will most probably ask it in "natural language." The brain of the librarian is supposed to automatically convert that natural language question into controlled vocabulary. A non-expert cannot do this. As an example of how warped someone's mind can become, I can relate an experience of my own when I worked at another institution years ago, when I saw a young woman type something into our catalog, then sat back and looked at the ceiling.
I asked if she needed some help. She replied that she had searched in the catalog and there was nothing. I asked what she wanted, and after some negotiation, I realized she was trying to find information about the education of black people in the US. My head immediately (and I mean *immediately*!) thought:
650 -0 $aAfro-americans$xEducation. )the heading has since changed)
Instead of just typing in this heading that would never have occurred to her, I tried to show her how to find it on her own. I don't know if it worked or not. Probably not. I (and ogthers) can give tens of thousands of similar examples. Can a system be built that could replicate this? Perhaps not 100%, but maybe to a certain point. I think it would be fun to try.
Concerning how "good" or "bad" we are at searching Google, I like to think that I am good at it too, but of course, it's hard to decide one way or another if we don't have any idea what is in there. All we can determine is if we are "satisfied" or not with the result. Of course, our search may be missing the most important parts and we would never know what we are missing, just at searching as a keyword "WWII" in a library catalog will get you lots of results and may make you happy until you discover that there is a search like: subject "World War, 1939-1945" and you see with your own eyes the incredible material you are missing. In another field, I may be happy with my doctor until I find out that (s)he's missing all the best therapies. If I never find this out, I remain happy with my doctor, but that's only because I don't know any better.
One of our tasks is to educate people so that they know better.
Jim Weinheimer
> Janet Hill wrote:
> > of "is bread bad for coots?" Then again .... I detest
> the natural language
> > question form of online inquiry, so I probably wouldn't have done a search
> > that way anyway.
> >
> Interesting to me that you have such a strong reaction to the "natural
> language question form of online inquiry"? Might I ask why you
> "detest"
> it? Because it has not been successful for you in the past
> ? For other
> reasons?
>
> [It has not generally for me either, although I'm not sure that past
> lack of success leads me to such a strong emotion as detesting! But
> that's just me. As long as we're in the middle of personal disclosure, I
> have recently noticed that I'm personally pretty awful at Google
> searches. I'm not sure why, I used to think I was good at them. Not sure
> if I was always self-deluded, or if as Google's contents and techniques
> have changed my former intuitive techniques have grown useless. But
> these days, when I can't find something on Google, I often ask a
> colleague to take a look and the colleague finds it right away. I'm not
> sure why! But indeed I would not normally try a 'natural language
> search' on Google, I would like to think that at best, I would have
> tried something like "coots bread harm" on Google--that one gives me a
> hit that tells me coots "will" eat bread, but doesn't specifically say
> if it's good for them or not, beyond trying to discourage park-goers
> from feeding the coots anything at all! ]
>
> So many interesting topics end up hanging off the situation presented by
> Martha, so thanks to Martha for presenting it.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> > janet
> >
> > Janet Swan Hill, Professor
> > Associate Director for Technical Services
> > University of Colorado Libraries, CB184
> > Boulder, CO 80309
> > janet.hill_at_colorado.edu
> > *****
> > Tradition is the handing-on of Fire, and not the worship of Ashes.
> > - Gustav Mahler
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Next generation catalogs for libraries
> > [mailto:NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Noakes, Erica A
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:13 AM
> > To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
> > Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Another Google Adventure
> >
> > Hi from Tasmania
> >
> > When I asked Google "can I feed coots bread?", which was really
> what Martha
> > wanted to know, rather than 'what do they eat?' my first google doc said:
> > "Bread does not contain all the nutrients that these wild birds need,
> so try
> > feeding them grass and seeds instead." and although it was referring
> to wild
> > birds more generally it mentioned coots as well
> >
> > My third google document said:
> >
> > "Coots feed mainly on vegetable matter but will eat food scraps given
> by
> > Garden visitors"
> >
> > I think someone mentioned in this thread previously that it depends on how
> > you ask the question - I would say that you need to be
> specific. Google is
> > clever, but it doesnt read minds ... yet!!
> >
> > Erica
> >
> > Erica Noakes
> > Library Technician (Digitial Archiving)
> > Our Digital Island
> > State Library of Tasmania
> > http://odi.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/
> > <h
> ttps://outlook.education.tas.gov.au/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://odi.s
> > tatelibrary.tas.gov.au/>
> > 91 Murray Street
> > Hobart TAS 7000
> > Email: erica.noakes_at_education.tas.gov.au
> > Phone No 6233-7586
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Next generation catalogs for libraries on behalf of Selden Deemer
> > Sent: Thu 31/01/2008 12:36 AM
> > To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
> > Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Another Google Adventure
> >
> >
> >
> > Martha Yee <myee_at_UCLA.EDU> writes:
> >
> > ...When I got home, I typed in to Google's famous search box
> > "what do coots eat?" The reply that came back was a
> web site
> > entitled "What do eagles eat?" In the list of eagle
> edibles
> > was coots.
> >
> > In LCSH, the heading Coots--Food would give you perfect recall
> > and precision for monographs wholly about what coots eat, if
> > there were any....
> >
> > Unfortunately, Google undermines your argument. For a Google
> > search on "coots food" the first hit is:
> >
> > American Coot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> > Ame
> rican Coot foraging for food. American Coot foraging for food.
> > These birds can dive for food but can also forage on land. ...
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Coot - 26k - Cached - Similar pages -
> >
> > From the Wikipedia article:
> >
> > They are omnivorous, eating plant material, insects, fish, and
> > other aquatic animals.
> >
> > Not that I consider Wikipedia an authoritative source...
> >
> > --
> > Selden Deemer, Library Systems Administrator
> > Emory University Libraries
> > Atlanta, Georgia
> > EMAIL: libssd_at_emory.edu
> > PHONE: 404-727-0271
> > FAX: 404-727-0827
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> Jonathan Rochkind
> Digital Services Software Engineer
> The Sheridan Libraries
> Johns Hopkins University
> 410.516.8886
> rochkind (at) jhu.edu
Received on Wed Jan 30 2008 - 15:03:07 EST