Why do I loathe natural language search boxes? No good reason, probably.
And probably because of a career's-worth of experience with catalogs and
controlled vocabulary. To me, the "natural language" approach (especially
as complete sentences) seems just -- stupid. The computer isn't interested
in the little words that we dress our sentences up with. And posing these
questions seems to me to be anthropomorphizing. To me, the "natural" way
to approach the question is through controlled vocabulary.
But that's just me.
Janet Swan Hill, Professor
Associate Director for Technical Services
University of Colorado Libraries, CB184
Boulder, CO 80309
janet.hill_at_colorado.edu
*****
Tradition is the handing-on of Fire, and not the worship of Ashes.
- Gustav Mahler
-----Original Message-----
From: Next generation catalogs for libraries
[mailto:NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Rochkind
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:12 PM
To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Another Google Adventure
Janet Hill wrote:
> of "is bread bad for coots?" Then again .... I detest the natural
language
> question form of online inquiry, so I probably wouldn't have done a search
> that way anyway.
>
Interesting to me that you have such a strong reaction to the "natural
language question form of online inquiry"? Might I ask why you "detest"
it? Because it has not been successful for you in the past ? For other
reasons?
[It has not generally for me either, although I'm not sure that past
lack of success leads me to such a strong emotion as detesting! But
that's just me. As long as we're in the middle of personal disclosure, I
have recently noticed that I'm personally pretty awful at Google
searches. I'm not sure why, I used to think I was good at them. Not sure
if I was always self-deluded, or if as Google's contents and techniques
have changed my former intuitive techniques have grown useless. But
these days, when I can't find something on Google, I often ask a
colleague to take a look and the colleague finds it right away. I'm not
sure why! But indeed I would not normally try a 'natural language
search' on Google, I would like to think that at best, I would have
tried something like "coots bread harm" on Google--that one gives me a
hit that tells me coots "will" eat bread, but doesn't specifically say
if it's good for them or not, beyond trying to discourage park-goers
from feeding the coots anything at all! ]
So many interesting topics end up hanging off the situation presented by
Martha, so thanks to Martha for presenting it.
Jonathan
> janet
>
> Janet Swan Hill, Professor
> Associate Director for Technical Services
> University of Colorado Libraries, CB184
> Boulder, CO 80309
> janet.hill_at_colorado.edu
> *****
> Tradition is the handing-on of Fire, and not the worship of Ashes.
> - Gustav Mahler
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Next generation catalogs for libraries
> [mailto:NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Noakes, Erica A
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:13 AM
> To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
> Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Another Google Adventure
>
> Hi from Tasmania
>
> When I asked Google "can I feed coots bread?", which was really what
Martha
> wanted to know, rather than 'what do they eat?' my first google doc said:
> "Bread does not contain all the nutrients that these wild birds need, so
try
> feeding them grass and seeds instead." and although it was referring to
wild
> birds more generally it mentioned coots as well
>
> My third google document said:
>
> "Coots feed mainly on vegetable matter but will eat food scraps given by
> Garden visitors"
>
> I think someone mentioned in this thread previously that it depends on how
> you ask the question - I would say that you need to be specific. Google
is
> clever, but it doesnt read minds ... yet!!
>
> Erica
>
> Erica Noakes
> Library Technician (Digitial Archiving)
> Our Digital Island
> State Library of Tasmania
> http://odi.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/
>
<https://outlook.education.tas.gov.au/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://odi.s
> tatelibrary.tas.gov.au/>
> 91 Murray Street
> Hobart TAS 7000
> Email: erica.noakes_at_education.tas.gov.au
> Phone No 6233-7586
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Next generation catalogs for libraries on behalf of Selden Deemer
> Sent: Thu 31/01/2008 12:36 AM
> To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
> Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Another Google Adventure
>
>
>
> Martha Yee <myee_at_UCLA.EDU> writes:
>
> ...When I got home, I typed in to Google's famous search box
> "what do coots eat?" The reply that came back was a web site
> entitled "What do eagles eat?" In the list of eagle edibles
> was coots.
>
> In LCSH, the heading Coots--Food would give you perfect recall
> and precision for monographs wholly about what coots eat, if
> there were any....
>
> Unfortunately, Google undermines your argument. For a Google
> search on "coots food" the first hit is:
>
> American Coot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> American Coot foraging for food. American Coot foraging for food.
> These birds can dive for food but can also forage on land. ...
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Coot - 26k - Cached - Similar pages -
>
> From the Wikipedia article:
>
> They are omnivorous, eating plant material, insects, fish, and
> other aquatic animals.
>
> Not that I consider Wikipedia an authoritative source...
>
> --
> Selden Deemer, Library Systems Administrator
> Emory University Libraries
> Atlanta, Georgia
> EMAIL: libssd_at_emory.edu
> PHONE: 404-727-0271
> FAX: 404-727-0827
>
>
>
>
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--
Jonathan Rochkind
Digital Services Software Engineer
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886
rochkind (at) jhu.edu
Received on Wed Jan 30 2008 - 14:30:40 EST