Re: The problem with OPACs [was: New subject keyword search]

From: Rinne, Nathan (ESC) <RinneN_at_nyob>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:43:18 -0500
To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
Will:

 

"RDF, Topic Maps and other similar systems have many features that go
above and beyond the type of information that simple marc records and
LCSH can provide. And by working to make machine AND human readable
formats they strive to create systems that are both easy to use and
extremely complex in regards to the types of information and the
relationships to other types of information they contain.

 

The currently library catalog isn't just not easy enough to use; it
doesn't come anywhere close to cutting edge regarding the quality and
functionality of its metadata."

 

Will, I like what you wrote.  I note (have I done so hear yet) that
Thompson-Gale is promoting their "information organizer expert"
credentials in a big way with their new PowerSearch database (see here:
http://tinyurl.com/32xz5u  Methinks the market gets it.  Librarians
don't.  

 

Re: RDF, can you point me to some working examples of sites that are
using RDF in a way perhaps comparable to what library catalogs need?  I
have read quite a bit on RDF, and I sometimes wonder how much is really
workable at this time.  I am just echoing some of Peter Morville's
sentiments here.  

 

Martha Yee just mentioned on AUTOCAT how the only problem that she sees
with the new OPAC here library released and that Ted G. introduced here
(she actually recommends subject searching as a default, and gives some
pretty good reasons why this is a good idea) is because of what we'll
call the "WWII problem".  

 

She says that we "still do not have software that recognizes the
hierarchical relationship between a main subject heading and any other
heading that consists of that main subject heading and a subdivision"
Therefore, even though the subject heading "World War, 1939-1945" has a
clearly indicated cross reference from "World War II" in the LC
authority record, no system (does she only mean the most recent
"up-to-date catalog software", or software in general - I do not know)
she knows of can use the cross reference in the LC authority record to
assist a user who types in 'france world war II' and needs to see the
headings that begin 'World War, 1939-1945--France.'  

 

Here is the authority record, by the way:  

 

 

LC Control Number:

sh 85148273 

HEADING <http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadhead.html> :

World War, 1939-1945

000

01132cz a2200361n 450

001

6255138

005

20040524235755.0

008

860211i| anannbabn |a ana 

035

__ |a (DLC)sh 85148273

035

__ |a (DLC)143170

035

__ |a (DLC)5352568

035

__ |a (DLC)sp 85148273

035

__ |a (DLC)269413

035

__ |a (DLC)4796485

035

__ |a (DLC)314916

906

__ |t 0419 |u te04 |v 0

010

__ |a sh 85148273 

040

__ |a DLC |c DLC |d DLC |d AuSU |d DLC

053

_0 |a D731 |b D838

150

__ |a World War, 1939-1945

450

__ |a European War, 1939-1945

450

__ |a Second World War, 1939-1945

450

__ |a World War 2, 1939-1945

450

__ |a World War II, 1939-1945

450

__ |a World War Two, 1939-1945

450

__ |a WW II (World War, 1939-1945)

450

__ |a WWII (World War, 1939-1945)

550

__ |w g |a History, Modern |y 20th century

670

__ |a Women's fiction of the Second World War, 1996.

670

__ |a LC database, May 7, 2004 |b (titles: World War Two; World War 2;
WW II)

670

__ |a Am. heritage dict. |b (WWII: abbr. World War II)

681

__ |i Example under reference from |a Wars

953

__ |a xx00 |b ta25

 

So if someone puts in WW II or WWII or World War 2 or World War II, a
system should be able to search the authority records as well, and be
able to immediately go to or at least direct people to the simple
heading, which is World War, 1939-1945.  

 

This seems simple enough.  Can RDF really help here?  Again, are there
analogous examples?  Or is this an AI pipe dream? 

 

Of course, LC could also change the main authorities.  They do this of
course (Vietnamese conflict -> Vietnam War) but with the cooperative
nature of librarianship (not so hierarchical) this sometimes takes time.


 

And I don't think we should take our time doing this.  :-)

 

Regards, 

Nathan Rinne

Media Cataloging Technician

ISD 279 - Educational Service Center (ESC) 

11200 93rd Ave. North

Maple Grove, MN. 55369

Work phone: 763-391-7183

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Next generation catalogs for libraries
[mailto:NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Will Kurt
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:00 AM
To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] The problem with OPACs [was: New subject keyword
search]

 

It's funny that you mention the idea of loosing metadata that assists

in providing expert information on a subject when I was just reading

a Gartner report the other day that cited one of the top reasons to

use semantic technologies is when human expertise in a certain field

is very costly.

 

People aren't abandoning detailed, expertly created and highly

structured metadata, in fact I would say that right now semantic

metadata is becoming more and more in demand (especially in the

healthcare industry, and biotechnology areas). I was at a conference

a few months back, put on by a publisher in the biological sciences,

and it was suggested by someone that strong, detailed, semantic

metadata was so valuable to researchers that publishers could give

away articles at no cost and simply charge for the metadata.

 

More people than ever are "working together (to some extent) to

cooperatively build amazingly devised systems to help people who

suspected they needed expert human help" They just aren't all working

in libraries.

 

RDF, Topic Maps and other similar systems have many features that go

above and beyond the type of information that simple marc records and

LCSH can provide. And by working to make machine AND human readable

formats they strive to create systems that are both easy to use and

extremely complex in regards to the types of information and the

relationships to other types of information they contain.

 

The currently library catalog isn't just not easy enough to use; it

doesn't come anywhere close to cutting edge regarding the quality and

functionality of its metadata.

 

A future we should be more concerned about is one where somebody else

comes up with a better way to handle bibliographic metadata before we
do.

 

--Will

 

 

 

At 11:01 AM 7/26/2007, you wrote:

>Michael: " However, doing so will require that we resist the temptation

>to create the ideal OPAC for *librarians*, but instead focus on
creating

>on OPAC that meets our *users'* search needs."

> 

>Insofar as librarians ought to do everything possible to help users do
a

>lot themselves, *I agree with all of this*.  But at the same time, in

>the midst of it all, I bemoan the reference librarian's potential loss

>of specialized tools devised to treat the increasingly "rare condition"

>of the truly questioning, curious, "leather-foot journalist"
researcher,

>scholar in this process.

> 

>Years in the future, perhaps when people are even less curious about
the

>past and the history of ideas then they are now, some thoughtful

>examiner of the world will read Thomas Mann and say, "Oh, the days when

>there were experts who actually could listen to one another - and work

>together (to some extent) to cooperatively build amazingly devised

>systems to help people who suspected they needed expert human help...

>it's a shame people did not realize their value... realize what they

>had"  I think this is likely.

> 

>In my mind, Karen Schneider's questions are still interesting... (and

>worth doing some major soul-searching about and taking action), but

>perhaps also reveal a certain shortsightedness.

> 

>Regards,

>Nathan Rinne

>Media Cataloging Technician

>ISD 279 - Educational Service Center (ESC)

>11200 93rd Ave. North

>Maple Grove, MN. 55369

>Work phone: 763-391-7183

> 

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Next generation catalogs for libraries

>[mailto:NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Doran, Michael D

>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:32 AM

>To: NGC4LIB_at_listserv.nd.edu

>Subject: [NGC4LIB] The problem with OPACs [was: New subject keyword

>search]

> 

> >  Selden Deemer wrote:

> >

> > Whatever the considerable benefits of browse displays (I

> > read, and took to heart Thomas Mann's comments), the fact

> > remains that, when I look at our search log stats, users (as

> > opposed to librarians) simply do NOT browse (and it's not for

> > lack of instruction).

> 

>I'm convinced that the underlying "problem" with our OPACs (from a

>usability perspective) is that they are sold once to librarians, rather

>than many times to end users.  If each user was making an individual

>purchase decision, OPACs would have quickly evolved to meet their
needs.

>I believe ILS vendors (who we often unfairly blame) are quite capable
of

>producing an awesome OPAC.  But the vendors are building OPACs to meet

>our (i.e. librarians) perceived needs, because vendors are smart and
are

>in business to make money and they understand that *we* are the ones

>writing that big check every 10-15 years or so.  As Selden points out,

>OPAC features that are important/essential to us, are often ones that

>our users could care less about, despite all our well-meaning

>instruction.

> 

>And that is assuming that OPAC functionality/usability is even a prime

>consideration in the purchase decision of an ILS.  Very often that's
not

>the case, as acquisitions, cataloging, or circulation module features

>drive the decision and the OPAC is an afterthought.  If we want to find

>out who's responsible for sucky OPACs, the first place we need to look

>is in the mirror [1].

> 

>On the bright side, products like VUFind, Primo, AquaBrowser, and
Endeca

>unbundle the OPAC from the ILS, giving us a chance to atone for past
ILS

>purchase decisions (which can't easily be undone).  One of the problems

>inherent in an ILS-bundled OPAC is that the 10-15 year (give or take)

>ILS replacement cycle does not allow for significant changes to what

>quickly becomes a calcified code base.  I'm particularly excited about

>Andrew Nagy's recently released open-source OPAC; with VUFind, the

>library-land development community has a golden opportunity to craft an

>OPAC that genuinely meets our users needs.  However, doing so will

>require that we resist the temptation to create the ideal OPAC for

>*librarians*, but instead focus on creating on OPAC that meets our

>*users'* search needs.  I think that would be an OPAC that doesn't

>require instruction (however well-meaning) or require an initial search

>page that is 80% search tips.

> 

>Just my opinion...

> 

>-- Michael

> 

>[1] Karen Schneider asks: "But the interesting questions are: Why don't

>online catalog vendors offer true search in the first place? and Why

>[don't we] demand it? Save the time of the reader!"  I would answer
that

>vendors don't offer it, and we don't demand it, because the ILS (OPAC)

>check-writers have other priorities.

>See: Karen Schneider, How OPACs Suck, Part 1

>http://www.techsource.ala.org/blog/2006/03/how-opacs-suck-part-1-releva
n

>ce-rank-or-the-lack-of-it.html

> 

># Michael Doran, Systems Librarian

># University of Texas at Arlington

># 817-272-5326 office

># 817-688-1926 mobile

># doran_at_uta.edu

># http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/
Received on Thu Jul 26 2007 - 10:24:59 EDT