> It would help, too, if all records could be shared, which
> isn't the case today.
Karen,
Could you elaborate on the reasons/causes you see for libraries not
being able to share records?
rob
On 12 Jul 2007, at 00:43, Karen Coyle wrote:
> There were various suggestions at the FoBC for how to manage
> "cooperation" using incentives or by developing a "barter" economy for
> bibliographic records. The thing is we've come to think of them as
> being
> free, which they really aren't, and somehow our "due." Like any other
> social cooperation, people need to have a reason to be part of it. I
> think we could develop that kind of social sharing but we'll have
> to get
> rid of some of our current assumptions about where bibliographic
> records
> come from. It would help, too, if all records could be shared, which
> isn't the case today.
>
> kc
>
> Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
>> Ted P Gemberling wrote:
>>> Why should I make the record improvements Jonathan mentioned, if
>>> it's
>>> just out of the goodness of my heart?
>>>
>> I thought you said you were _already_ making them, for the
>> presumed use
>> of your own users? If you are already doing that anyway, would you
>> really mind sharing it with others with no additional gain except the
>> benefit of the library community (and the fact that you will mutually
>> benefit from this strengthened community, in a sort of generalized
>> reciprocity).
>>
>> The problem I see is that there are all these record improvemetns
>> many
>> people are ALREADY making, but in fact many people need to make again
>> and again, duplicating effort. So from that perspective, there is no
>> question "why would I do that work", that work is already being
>> done, so
>> apparently you already have good enough reason to do it--but the
>> product
>> of that work is not being shared very effectively.
>>
>> But, there is indeed a 'tragedy of the commons' issue there. Right
>> now,
>> many people are already making those record improvements---because
>> they
>> believe they have to, if they want to get those improvements. If
>> such a
>> technical infrastructure allowing better sharing existed, would all
>> those institutions stop making the improvements, hoping that
>> 'somebody
>> else' would, and they could just take advantage of them for cheap? If
>> everyone is waiting for 'somebody else', then nobody's doing
>> anything,
>> indeed.
>>
>> Now, the fact of the matter is, there is a whole lot of
>> duplication of
>> effort right now. So from an objective point of view, it should be
>> possible to 'cooperatively' share more than we are, reduce
>> duplication
>> of effort, and thereby get better data _without increasing person
>> hours
>> spent_. Should be possible, but socially politically, how do you pull
>> this off without a 'tragedy of the commons'? Maybe that's the
>> situation
>> we're already in, maybe that's why our infrastrucutre of
>> cooperation is
>> what it is, and we have so much duplication of effort. I don't know.
>> It's a political/social challenge as well as a technical to
>> improve our
>> infrastructure of cooperation. But I think it's something we've
>> got to
>> pull off somehow, to maintain effectiveness.
>>
>> It is indeed a question of leadership within cataloging
>> departments and
>> within libraries.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>> But as I believe Bob Wolven suggested in his summary, it's hard
>>> to see
>>> how that can be remedied if management wants cataloging to be cheap.
>>> Calhoun and others are, to some extent, asking us to "have faith"
>>> that
>>> we'll be able to serve our users as well, or better, with less
>>> money and
>>> staffing.
>>>
>>> Ted Gemberling
>>> UAB Lister Hill Library
>>> (205)934-2461
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Next generation catalogs for libraries
>>> [mailto:NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cynthia Williamson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:48 PM
>>> To: NGC4LIB_at_LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Calhoun at FoBC
>>>
>>> Hi Everyone - I will definitely go and listen to Rick Lugg's
>>> intro, I
>>> completely agree that we need to let go of the idea of the
>>> perfect bib
>>> record. It comes down to "description vs. access". I don't know
>>> where I
>>> first heard that phrase (may well have been Karen Calhoun
>>> herself) but
>>> it hits the right note for me. As someone who lives in both
>>> worlds -
>>> Cataloguing and Information Services, I see both sides of this
>>> coin. We
>>> really do have to focus on access not description. I'd rather have
>>> material on the shelf quickly with a short, fairly accurate
>>> record than
>>> wait for someone to catalogue it perfectly. Our library uses a
>>> vendor
>>> and is part of a consortium and I often bemoan the lack of control I
>>> have over the catalogue; my complaints usually involve turnaround
>>> time -
>>> I want the materials I select on the shelf as quickly as
>>> possible. How
>>> can I tell instructors who are accustomed to getting a book
>>> purchased
>>> from Amazon in 24 hours that they'll have to wait for over a
>>> month for
>>> something they want for their students to appear on the library
>>> shelves???? However the next generation catalogue finally looks and
>>> operates, I know my patrons will judge it by how easy it is to
>>> use not
>>> by how accurately we follow cataloguing rules.
>>>
>>> Cynthia Williamson
>>> Collection Management Librarian
>>> Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
>>> Hamilton, ON
>>> L8N 3T2
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle_at_KCOYLE.NET>
>>> Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:23 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Calhoun at FoBC
>>>
>>>
>>>> Erin Leach wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The problem, as you point out, is that the records you might buy
>>>>>
>>>> aren't> as "good" as the work you might produce. I think that
>>>> Calhoun would
>>>>
>>>>> argue that users want access to the information, even if the
>>>>> records
>>>>> conveying that information isn't perfect. Calhoun might say that
>>>>>
>>>> users> don't care as much about subject access as they do about
>>>> whether or not
>>>>
>>>>> the URL is in the record or if the record can be found at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Just back from the FoBC:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, this was the gist of her message, but also of the messages of
>>>> manyother speakers as well. If you didn't listen to the webcast
>>>> live, do
>>>> listen to Rick Lugg's intro when it gets up online. He really
>>>> set the
>>>> tone for the meeting, and his point was that in order to
>>>> function in
>>>> this fast-moving world we are going to have to give up on the idea
>>>> thatwe are creating "perfect" bib records. Many speakers made the
>>>> point that
>>>> we should accept copy from just about anywhere we can find it, and
>>>> onlyfix anything that we think greatly hinders access. They also
>>>> said that
>>>> we should be spending much less time on regularly published
>>>> works and
>>>> more time on the unique items in our collections. As to Jonathan's
>>>> pointabout sharing, there were a few "digs" at publishers and at
>>>> OCLC for
>>>> hindering sharing. This is an underlying issue that has not been
>>>> broughtto the surface and I wonder when it will finally "hit the
>>>> fan." We
>>>> obviously can't rely on publisher data is a starting point for copy
>>>> cataloging if we can't then share versions of that record with
>>>> other
>>>> libraries.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to get my full notes up online shortly, but I really do
>>>> recommend the webcasts when they appear, which should be in a few
>>>> days.Especially the comments and questions, which were often more
>>>> pointedthan the prepared speeches.
>>>>
>>>> kc
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
>>>> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
>>>> ph.: 510-540-7596 skype: kcoylenet
>>>> fx.: 510-848-3913
>>>> mo.: 510-435-8234
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Rochkind
>> Sr. Programmer/Analyst
>> The Sheridan Libraries
>> Johns Hopkins University
>> 410.516.8886
>> rochkind (at) jhu.edu
>>
>>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596 skype: kcoylenet
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> ------------------------------------
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Received on Thu Jul 12 2007 - 08:38:15 EDT